It's everywhere!
And it just flows in with virtually no effort needed on the player's part at all, you can conceivably run the exact same content over and over again for ever-increasing rewards.
Now this isn't such a big deal, is it?
So what if you can gear up infinitely from World Quests or whatever?
It doesn't hurt anyone, does it?
Of course it doesn't, it is completely fine.
The issue is the massive disparity in difficulty across the different gearing paths, particularly Mythic plus.
I have a couple of characters at 120 now who have never entered a dungeon or raid but are sitting in the high 370s on ilvl, which would be even higher if I bothered to do the Darkshore Warfront every time it comes around.
But what do you do next?
Say you have reached the heady heights of 380ilvl by picking up incremental gains on WQs with a couple of pieces from Warfronts plus the higher level rewards of the emissary quests.
Easily achievable without relying on the RNG gods for a lucky warforge or anything.
Where do you go to further progress your character?
1. Just carry on.
The WQs system hasn't let you down so far so why change? Well, it slows drastically as you get nearer to 385ilvl. Only the Emissary rewards offer anything over 370ilvl so you are waiting for those and praying they give you the right slots or waiting for that Darkshore Warfront to roll around again (and hoping it isn't a fecking cloak for the 3rd time in a row! Not bitter... )
2. Raiding!
Already out-gearing LFR by some distance, it would have to be Normal mode to offer any sort of upgrades. Preferably Heroic for a nice juicy 400ilvl piece or two.
Probably start on Normal mode though.
3. Mythic Plus.
The endless content cycle of the same dungeons marginally more difficult each time you run them.
This is where I think the problem lies.
Raiding Normal mode and any kind of M+ that would offer an ilvl upgrade are an order of magnitude more difficult than the gearing up to that point.
How are you supposed to proceed?
You outgear the most natural next step in difficulty and the curve rises incredibly steeply from that point onwards.
In reality, you are looking at +6 or +7 at that gear level to offer a reasonable chance of upgrade but going straight there from Darkshore Warfront would be brutal!
Normal mode raids aren't quite as severe but they are also nowhere near as accessible, obviously requiring a bigger team and greater time commitment.
My Shaman needs +10 dungeons for any kind of upgrade and they are still very difficult but that is at the top end of gearing and you expect it to be difficult, a step between Heroic and Mythic raiding.
I can't work out where the real problem is...
Does the easy WQ gear scale too high?
Does the difficulty of M+ scale too quickly?
The 'curve' seems wrong to me, to gain experience in M+ it feels like you have to run content you outgear. Or not necessarily outgear the content, but outgear the rewards from that content.
(I think I said Outgear too many times in that sentence, the word is losing all meaning.)
So do you go from WQs to +7 Shrine of
The time and effort required for WQs seems massively disproportionate to the rewards, especially when compared with Mythic plus.
How to fix it?
Maybe the lower end of M+ should offer higher rewards and it just scales more slowly, possibly a jump in gear rewards with each affix added?
A narrower gear curve across M+ would definitely help... People would still want +10 at the top end for the max reward and weekly chest but if it started at 385ilvl for +2, I think it would make for much smoother progression from WQs.
Any ideas?
First up grats on your 2 posts in a month achievement. Haha they introduced achievements whilst you were away.
ReplyDeleteHa ha
Ok so gearing curve etc. Im going to say i agree pretty much with everything you have said. Sure i liked it better in the good old days when you could tell how good a player was by looking their gear. And whilst i don't particular join in with the whole transmog thing that doesn't mean i think it is a bad idea in fact i think it's excellent. But i do think in times gone by reserving the top gear for the hardest content was spot on. No way should a weekly LFR M0 runner be better geared than an half decent heroic raider. Rewarding peoples persistence rather than skill is a bit messed up although not a new concept. I think the valor and x tokens had the balance about right it rewarded persistance but never got you ahead of your chosen content.
I dont think there is a whole bunch a serious players that actually like warfudging / titan fiddling but its here and in theory it isnt that bad an idea its just the amount it can level an item and the frequency. Reduce the frequency any WF / TF occurs so much that it is never woeth doing content you massively overgear. Like wise reduce the amount by which it can level an item to +5 wf and the ultra rare tf to +10. Job done.
That doesn't properly sort out the curve at the moment and this isn't a wf rant thread but that would certainly be a start. Ok so sticking with things as they are limiting the reward from dungeons and boxes to be a bit more meaningful would be a great start I've not thought this through as i type but I'm thinking m0 is 370 so any m+ completed gives a 380. Done in time 385. Done with 2 affix 390 completed and if done in time 395. Im guessing you can see where this is headind 3 affixes 395 any clear 400 in time and +10 at 400 for a completed 405 for in time. Then boxes + 10 levels of whatever your best dungeon of the week was.
Now if that is similar or the same as what actually it is then the problem lies not with the rewards its the fact that the rewards too frequently proc to give better rewards.
As a total aside should we're be able to downgrade a key a little easier ie if get an 8 from your box click on it and break it down to a 4 for exmple whereby you just choose the level anything lower than you have without having to faff ahout going in and out the dungeon.
Maybe implent the reward system above and remove wf Tf chances from mythic plus to keep peoples skill in line with their gear. Sorry its heading down the wf rant again.
I'm going to go back to some other comments in this thread. In fact the theme of the thread gear gear and more gear. The fact that gear is everywhere and wf'ing is so common place is this not what's making harder to actually get gear? Well to get gear you must first log in and find something you want to do. But what do you do? there is no clear path i want better gear... do something anything. LFR? All wings every week? If there was gear for laps round dalaran I'm sure there would be even more 410+ geared people.
The WF/TF are actually necessary in current end-game wow so, although they contribute towards this gearing issue, they have to stay.
DeleteLot to go into on WF/TF, it might make a 3rd post!
Achievements hahaha, I wouldn't have many!
ReplyDelete